A Podcast Interview with Georgie Nakima about how art is healing. 

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This week our hosts Erniko Brown and Kimala Luna from Dogwood Alliance and Elizabeth Lashay from SlayTheMic talk with Georgie Nakima about the importance of visual representation, doing your best imperfectly, and art as an avenue to learn and heal. Art is healing.

Georgie Nakima is a multidisciplinary artist and muralist based out of Charlotte, NC. After honing in on her artistry at Northwest School of the Arts, she attended Winston-Salem State University with the intention of further exploring the natural world. Her studies in Life Sciences have fueled her insight in environment preservation and philosophy, which transcends through her work’s subject matter.

Her work pays homage to the African and Indigenous diaspora while highlighting nature and biodiversity. She casts a heroic vibe to her subjects that represents the resilience and triumph that builds into the essence of women, people of color, and wildlife. Her aim is to collaborate with the community and contribute towards mural installments that also fuse techniques in art therapy. More of her work can be seen at www.gardenofjourney.com.

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Check out the full transcript of our interview with Georgie Nakima!

Full Transcript of Art is Healing with Georgie Nakima:

Elizabeth:
Hey everyone. I’m Elizabeth Lashay with Slay The Mic and I’m joined with my wonderful cohost.

Kimala:
Kimala Luna from Dogwood Alliance. And we are a here with…

Erniko:
Erniko Brown, with Dogwood Alliance and, y’all, I am bringing somebody to the table, that is just absolutely amazing. This is my homegirl in justice. My sister in Christ. My homie on the field. We are here. When I tell you you’re going to learn some amazing things about a beautiful soul, be prepared. Because today we have none other than someone I am so privileged to call my friend, Georgie Nakima.

Georgie:
What an introduction. Thank you. Let me live up to that for this interview.

Elizabeth:
I would love to just jump right in and ask you, where did you find your love for nature?

Georgie:
Growing up in a rural area in North Carolina, I think that it’s just kind of a testament to my environment. My upbringing. Also, I think that growing up in the 90s, I’m probably one of the last generations where we just grew up outside. We played outside till the street lights were on. We climbed trees. We just would go on just adventures throughout our day. It was very grounding. I guess you don’t realize how much you love something until it’s away from you. So I think as I started to dive into more metropolitan areas, I was just like, wow. It’s really different here when we can’t seem to get away and just find solitude or quietness, or stillness. I started to appreciate that more and more.

Kimala:
Since Erniko gave you such an awesome introduction, and it sounds like you all have a real special friendship. I want to know how you all met. And then it also sounds like you have a lot of overlap in the work you do. So, how has that friendship benefited you during that time?

Georgie:
Yeah. We actually connected through Dogwood Alliance. My friend Nakisa was like, “Hey, do you want to go to this workshop in Western Salem?” I just said yes. I just said yes to it. Little did I know that I would meet Erniko and I would meet a lot of other climate warriors who were also invited to go to Al Gore’s Climate Justice Summit. And that’s where we got to really get to know each other, and we really start to really dive into our perspectives, and our shared interests in what it means to have social justice and climate justice especially for Black communities. What mitigation could look like and how we could really join forces, even if it’s just supporting each other from a distance.

Kimala:
That’s awesome. Thank you.

Erniko:
So I’ll jump in. One thing, you talked about how we got to know each other and how things came about. And in learning about Georgie, we share this thing. And if I remember correctly, Georgie, you did biology, right?

Georgie:
Oh well, yeah. I studied in my undergrad.

Erniko:
Right. We had a conversation in Atlanta when we were at the Climate Reality Summit with Al Gore. And I was like, “Well, Georgie, how do you mesh biology with painting? How do you do that?” And if you all have not seen her artistic work, y’all are missing out. So Georgie, I would love for you to tell them how you mesh those two things together. Because those are two totally different worlds seemingly. I just want you to share with the people how you put those things together. Because it amazed me.

Georgie:
Yeah. Thank you. I mean, I always say that art is a science and science is an art. So I think that they’re more separate than they are. I think that they’re more alike than they are separate. As an artist, I think that the premise of art is expression. So you’re kind of taking in a collection of all your experiences. So just me having my insight in sciences, I think it’s more subconscious than actually premeditated. A lot of people will take notice in my work and how it’s very geometric, and the fractals that go into it. I really think that four years of just diving deep into learning the unseen because really biology to a certain degree, it’s chemistry. It’s more chemistry. And then chemistry is just math. So you really dive deep into the subjects in a way where I think it really nourishes your insight, and just how you really see the world.
So I really like to overlay my artwork with… It’ll be realistic portrait, but it’ll also be abstract. And that’s kind of just an ode to the things that we see and the things that we don’t see, and how they come together. I also work as a muralist. And I try to do things more intentional with my murals because this is public art. So it doesn’t just belong to me. It belongs to everyone who sees it. So I like to really make it conscious. And I like to add local fauna and flora. I like to make it as site-specific as possible. And I like to really create a message that is bigger than humans. It also connects with our environment that we’re in. Because sometimes with art, when you see a portrait, it just kind of alludes to the human ego. But I like to kind of show things beyond who we are and just kind of show the shared world that we’re in.

Elizabeth:
Thank you. And so can you tell us where you’re located? And where we could kind of see some of these wonderful murals that you have done?

Georgie:
Yeah. I’m based in Charlotte, North Carolina. I’m actually working on a mural right now. I have some work all over Charlotte. I’m also working in the historic West End in East Charlotte. I mean, I love working uptown in the more hipster areas. But, also when I’m doing my personal work, I like to bring it outside of the arts district and actually into the communities. Also, I have some work in Winston Salem, which is where I first met Erniko in [Dogwood] Alliance. I actually did a mural at that space in S. G. Atkins. I just finished a mural in Winston last year, uptown, and I’m doing another one this summer. A mural at the World Trade Center, this past October, which was a lot of fun. And I’ve also done some stuff in Durham.

Kimala:
Oh my gosh. I have a lot of questions about the mural category. Because that is manipulating space in this really big way. And you have control over what is brought into the space. Like you were talking about earlier, bringing in those plant elements. And then, who is represented in that space? And so can you talk a little bit about the difference between mural creation at the community level, in gentrified areas, and that big project at the World Trade Center? I definitely want to hear more about.

Georgie:
Yeah. I mean, my art is deeply rooted in Afro-futurism. I like to really look at the past and look at the dilemmas that Black people have survived, and persevered. And I like to overlay it with hope. With a bit of a futuristic twist. So that it’s ultimately timeless in that, wherever it lives, it can grow with the setting. My goal is to create visual representation. When I was growing up, there was not a strong push for diversity, inclusion, and equity as it is today. So I grew up feeling very invisible and not seen. My hope is to really just create a visual for the movement and to show happy, healthy Brown and Black faces. I think that there’s so much stereotypes, pain, trauma that’s real and that it exists, but that’s not necessarily the story that I’m telling. So that’s what I put into my community work. And it just so happened that, that’s what a lot of corporate and commercial clients are looking for as well. So I’m happy to extend that when the opportunity hits and that’s how I ended up working with the World Trade Center.

Erniko:
Listen, Georgie, I tell you all the time you’re absolutely amazing. And I just love you. I love the work that you do because you’re highlighting Black and Brown communities in this Afro-futuristic manner that manifests in places that we aren’t usually represented. And for the big project at the World Trade Center, you are used to seeing traditionally, white males, white females walking around. I mean, you catch a sprinkle of-

Georgie:
Actually in New York, it’s more Chinese. Specifically Chinese. So I’m not even blanketing the ethnic group. I think that New York is just international. Just salad. Yeah. So I think with art, there’s a lot of amazing Chinese artists that I saw there. But you’re right. It is dominated by white males as well. And I think that that’s what we kind of see here in our area too.

Erniko:
And so what I was getting to, that representation in the space. Why do you feel like it’s important to not only have you as representation in the space but have Black representation through your artwork in these spaces?

Georgie:
It’s so important because I think America is just living through its own karmic cycles of oppression. And it’s going to continue to resurface until we acknowledge it for what it is and until we heal it. So I think that art is so healing. I think that it speaks to places that words can’t. I think that it’s the first step of many steps. An example is the Black Lives Matter murals that were popping up nationally. We also did them here in Charlotte. We did one right uptown and it became a safe place. It became a haven. It became a photo-op. It just became so many things. And that’s kind of something that art has the power to do.

Elizabeth:
That is beautiful. The whole time I’m getting chills from what you’re saying. And something that really stood out to me that you said was, growing with the environment. That your art grows with the environment. Which I absolutely love. And I want to ask you. What do you think in terms of environmental sustainability, we need in order to continue to grow with the current environment that we’re all living in?

Georgie:
Yeah. I think art can be a visual translator, especially to science. Because a lot of the jargon and a lot of the language is beyond what people understand, really. I mean, think about it. A lot of scientific words are written in Latin. Which is like… you know, it’s a dead language. I think people can’t really get to it sometimes. It seems very far removed. So I think any type of infographic, any type of image, data that can be visualized, it will help people that really don’t understand how it’s impacting them personally.

Kimala:
Can you talk about the nature of collaboration as it translates from the community work that you do to the artwork you do, to the way that you see it showing up in biology that you find interesting?

Georgie:
Yeah. I mean, my whole career is just rooted in collaboration. It just wouldn’t have been possible without kind of being hand-in-hand with my peers. And I think it’s important to get outside of your head and to have a link between what’s going on outside of you. Because that’s a good way to see if what you’re carrying with you is outdated. And also if there’s more to exchange. If there’s more for you to share. If it’s important. What’s not important. I feel super blessed to have been planted here in Charlotte because it’s a city that is growing. But it’s also a city that had a very lacking arts community until my self and my peers kind of galvanized together and were like, “Listen, this is what we need to do. This is what is being called.” And you definitely see the trend of murals happening worldwide.
So as far as collaboration, I consider myself a visual storyteller. And I’m very limited in my perspective. So, I like to connect with story keepers. Every community has their story keeper. I mean, all of us in this Zoom call, we’re all story keepers. So if you can share something with me about yourself. Your lived experience. Your goals. I can process that and interpret that through art. So, that’s one of the ways that I collaborate. I like to do surveys. Sometimes it’s just like a pre-engagement process to really just get informal. What’s going on? I like to just kind of continue the conversation so that even after the art is done already, it still has… the intention is known. People know and people can also preserve the story and tell it to the next person.

Erniko:
That’s dope, Georgie. And one thing that you just said about you was being transplanted in Charlotte. And I know when you first spoke, you were talking about being from a rural area. Could you just give us a little… Paint a picture if you will, since you’re an amazing artist. Paint a picture if you will for us about the community that you came from. What was it like? I know that it was rural. But outside of it being rural, what catapulted you and just motivated you to say hey, I’m getting ready to leave here. I’m getting ready to make my mark on the world. And I’m going to make that mark predominantly in Charlotte. So paint a picture if you will, of your past and how we got to the present, if you will.

Georgie:
Yeah. Well, I’m originally from New Bern, which is on the coast. I guess it’s like a town, technically. But it’s a really small city. It’s like the first city of… The first capital of North Carolina. New Bern is a simple city and there’s a lot of great things that are happening there. But what brought me to Charlotte actually, is my parents separating. My mom just went on a whim to move to Charlotte. And it was the greatest decision that impacted me because, coming from a small city to a larger city, I got to see all of the disadvantages that I had being in New Bern. I saw all the opportunities that were in Charlotte. And sometimes when you are from the big city and you’ve always been in a big city, you’re kind of numb to the opportunities that are right at your face.
You’re kind of numb to it. But for me being from a small town and seeing, oh, wow, you all have got cultural arts centers. What? You all have art schools. You all have museums. You all have so many cool maker spaces. It was super motivating. Also, New Bern is a place that is not very… I think it’s like don’t get me on demographics, but it’s a very just Black and white city. It’s not very diverse. There is an Asian population and there is a Latinx population, but they’re still undergoing a lot of backlash from the civil rights era. And it shows. So coming to Charlotte, I just saw so much diversity. I just saw people of different languages. I think it was just my first time being around Black people that were not from America. They were from Africa and Jamaica, and just different places.
So I really just started to explore what culture means. What heritage means. What my heritage means for myself. And also just identity. How we identify ourselves. I think when it comes down to any politics, it can be powerful to represent yourself, but sometimes we’ve hyper categorize ourselves into a way that it separates our humanity. I like to use my work where it’s like, yeah, you may see some Afro-centric features on a blue and green portrait, and no matter what you look like, you’re going to see a part of yourself in it. It kind of just breaks it down. What was the original question?

Erniko:
No. It was just you painting a picture for us, about you coming from-

Georgie:
Oh yeah. From New Bern to Charlotte. Yeah. I mean, I moved to Charlotte when I was 12 years old. So I consider myself from here, but I know my roots. My whole family is seven, eight generations from this region. So I still feel connected to the coast, but I feel like a lot of my refinement came from being here.

Elizabeth:
Thank you for sharing, Georgie. I definitely lived in New Bern until I was eight years old. So Tryon palace…

Georgie:
Yes.

Elizabeth:
A few stoplights and one bagel store. So I definitely know-

Georgie:
Walmart and the mall.

Elizabeth:
Right, exactly. And it is a different world. Thank you for sharing that. When we talk about where Georgie wants to be, and not just the future of five years. But where do you see yourself in two years when it comes to the work that you’re currently doing?

Georgie:
I’m in the process of opening a studio maker space and I’m super excited about it because I feel like with all the opportunities that I have, I want to make sure that there’s a give-back connected to it. And it’s kind of rooted in… physical space is not always accessible, especially for young creatives. Especially for young entrepreneurs. So I’m hoping to just kind of create a space where everyone can use it. We have a collective of artists and creatives, and we’re able to be empowered and just really fertilize the creative ecosystem here. I also do want to be more specific about how I use my artwork to connect with sustainability.
I think right now it’s very symbolic and poetic to my work and how I explain it. But I’m interested in being more realistic and actually, physically working on installations that are sustainable. Using sustainable products and using things that can actually help, and show some evidence that it can actually help cleanse the environment in that way. I’m being very general because I’ve written a couple of proposals and I’m just waiting on them to bake. It would be best for me to kind of circle back with you guys in the future after I get some good news. But I want to be very actual with my intentions. Not just kind of talk about it, but actually do things that are powerful, not just for me, but for other people that I’m around.

Kimala:
I love that. And so I’m going to sneak two in here. I’ve noticed people who are very specific with their intentions are fueled by some really powerful stuff. So, what lights your fire? What sparks you? What keeps you going? What motivates you? That’s the number one. And then the second one is we kind of skimmed over Afrofuturism. And I was hoping you could talk a little bit about that because it’s dope. And we’re seeing it represented in the media more and more. And I don’t know if people necessarily know that that’s what they’re looking at. So those are my two.

Georgie:
Yeah. Well, they kind of connect. I’m motivated by my ancestors. I feel like they made the ultimate sacrifice for me. I envision even with Afrofuturism. I think that technology is an amazing tool, but it’s like, how are we using it? If you’re using your technology just to be on social media eight hours a day, is that really the best light? So I’m really inspired to take the resources that we have today and to also praise what the ancestors were able to do. How they were able to work in synergy with the land, the air, and the water. How they were able to cultivate. How they were able to organize.
If we can combine that with technology from this era that we’re in, I think we’ll be more powerful. But I think in a lot of ways we don’t work with nature, we work against it. I’m also just super motivated by all the things that are wrong in the world. The problems of the world do not belong to me. I don’t own them, but I do hope that I leave this world a little bit better than I found it. Even just through small efforts. I’m super inspired just to do things that are uplifting and just be a positive example of what you can do when you actually just believe in yourself.

Erniko:
Georgie. I am just amazed at what you’re doing. I really feel that inspiration from our ancestors and people in the thought that you want to leave the world a little better than you found it. If you could just say or speak to individuals in this movement. Are there individuals in this movement that inspire you daily to continue doing what you’re doing?

Georgie:
Definitely. But, I’m bad with names. I’m bad with names. If you go through my Instagram, through my… Everyone I’m following is inspiring me in a major way. I like to follow sustainable practice, like pages on Instagram. It’s good because I get… I don’t know. It’s just so much knowledge packed through a meme these days, and I’m here for it. I’m really inspired by you, Erniko. I feel like you’re a person that has a real testimony, and that you’re able to take your lived experience and really empower the people around you. So I see you and I love that you do that. I love how you kind of just, wear your heart in a way where it’s just like… that people around you can feel loved and supported. So I think all of that really counts.

Erniko:
Yeah. Okay. Well, the people won’t be able to see it, but I’m definitely blushing over here. I love you for real. And that’s what it’s about man. Supporting each other in this movement. Giving each other daily motivations. Giving each other daily inspiration. Because I can remember, Georgie, our conversations. We’re talking about years ago. We’re talking about places where we wanted to be. And now we’re actually in these spaces doing these things. And you motivate me. And having been on this platform. Just giving you the opportunity to tell that story about how you have come to be and share it with the world.
You’re not just Georgie, who I was sitting at a table with years back. You’re Georgie that’s putting out amazing artwork across this world. You’re leaving your mark in so many different places. And those things are amazing to me. And so for me, outside of you just like making my heart [fill with] wonder today. If you can speak to people and give them motivation, what would be one thing that you would want to say to individuals with this opportunity, with your one mic today?

Georgie:
All right. I would say, seven-day vegan challenge. Let’s get it. I’m kidding. I would say, it’s not about doing things perfectly. It’s just about doing the best you can imperfectly. I think sometimes we get scared about if I fail or if I’m not that good. But, as long as you’re doing your best imperfectly, giving yourself grace, and learning every day, and just learning something new, I think that that’s what it takes to make this world a little bit better. I think society has this way of showing us that we’re small. That we can’t do anything. That all we can do is just vote and leave it to the politicians. But, every day we vote with the decisions that we make. So, I think we’re a lot more powerful than you realize. And we’re a lot more stronger when we come together.

Elizabeth:
Thank you. That was beautiful. So with SlayTheMic, it’s a hip-hop and R&B radio show. And I am just curious. Do you have some songs that motivate you or that you listen to whenever you’re creating a wonderful mural? Or what is in your playlist?

Georgie:
Ooh, yeah. I have a whole Spotify playlist called Art to it. I think that’s public. I really love this song by Anna Wise is called Count My Blessings. That’s a good song. Super Bounce is another song that I really like. I listen to a lot of eclectic hip-hop trance soul music. So my ears are all over the place. I’m on the spot. So I’m like, think of an artist. But also, I really like Soulection too. Because I work with a collective of different artists. And they’re always digging up old songs, new songs, and putting them over futuristic beats. So all of that is super inspiring to me. I love to listen to it. Also, when I’m painting, I like to listen to Audibles a lot of the time, when music gets too much or repetitive.
Because I feel like I listen to the same things over and over. So right now I’m re-listening to The Alchemist. That’s been really cool. I have a little nugget starter in there. I feel like a lot of stuff that I listen to audibles is a lot more non-fiction, a lot more like self-motivation books. I finished listening to Bell Hooks’s All About Love. Which is really good. I also listen to The Seven Daily Habits of Successful People. I kind of tune in and tune out sometimes, but it’s just kind of good to have as background.

Kimala:
So at Dogwood Alliance, we are celebrating 25 years of being an organization. So we’re reflecting back on what we’ve done in the last 25 years, and then imagining the next 25 years. If in your dreamiest dreamy vision, if you could just wave a magical wand and make it how you want it for the next 25 years, what would you do?

Georgie:
My long-term goal is to have a school. I think that how we educate the next generation is so important. I have a nonprofit called Learning Resources for Change, which is all about connecting art with education. It’s very informal. It’s just very peer led, but we just all have so much wisdom and insight to share that we don’t often tap into, out of daily small talk. We kind of use art as an avenue to learn, but also to heal, through art therapy. So I would love to just continue working on these community-based projects, but to eventually just have a tribe where we are empowered and where we’re supported. Where there’s enough pay, everybody eats. And we can just have more creative control with how we want to cultivate.

Kimala:
That’s super dreamy, thank you.

Georgie:
Yes, it is really dreamy. And a garden. A nice little garden somewhere.

Erniko:
That’s absolutely amazing, Georgie. And I definitely appreciate you Kimala for bringing that up, because I heard the word healing. And I know that artwork is a healing form for you. How do you utilize your artwork to heal communities? Or how do you feel like your artwork heals communities?

Georgie:
I like to talk about very uncomfortable things. I like to talk about gentrification, displacement, oppression. I like to talk about what that means for people. What they’re living through. What they’re hurting through. And then, have them be heard, but channel that into the artwork. It’s just like when you’re taking all of those hurdles and it’s kind of like music. Whenever you listen to a sad song, you’re taking that emotion, but you’re giving it a melody. So it’s able to take you somewhere else and you’re able to find a hope or a process where you can go through it, and you can grow through it.
So I like to do that with artwork as well. I like to talk about things that are hard to face and then create an image out of it that is made in love, made in wisdom, made in hope. Channeling something where people can relate to it. And so they don’t just live in that pain. They can actually look at it. Look at the image of it and then they feel like it carries them to a better place. That’s my intention. I can’t say that it always works out like that, but that’s at least my intention.

Elizabeth:
Man. I am amazed at the roots and the way you have cultivated such a strong and rich identity of who you are. And when we look back… I always like to ask this question. What would you tell your younger self?

Georgie:
Y’all asking me some good questions. I would tell my younger self, keep pushing, keep going for it. To enjoy the moments, because they don’t always come twice. So, be present. I would tell my younger self you’re smarter than you think, you’re stronger than you think. Listen to your intuition the first time and stay away from boys.

Kimala:
So, Georgie, it sounds like you got a lot going on and a lot of different ways people can plug in. Can you give us a little… give our viewers some areas they can follow you. I know you mentioned your non-profit. It sounds like you have an art project you’re currently working on. Is that going to be an art show or is it going to be a mural?

Georgie:
Yeah. Actually, I have one exhibit that’s currently on display at The Mint museum. We’ll be doing an opening on April 16th. I would love for you guys to follow me at Garden of Journey. It’s spelled exactly like how it sounds. So that’s Garden of Journey on Instagram and it’s also my website, and my Facebook page, Tumblr. All of my social media. So, you can find me there to stay connected on a day-to-day basis. I’m super active up there. Super approachable, if you have any questions or would like to collaborate in the future. Just send me a message or an email.

Elizabeth:
I mean, I could talk to you all day about everything that you…

Erniko:
I don’t have a question. I just want to say, Georgie, I definitely appreciate you taking time out to join us today. I know you, but I wanted to share you with the world because you’re so amazing. And voices like yours, people doing the work that you’re doing as it relates to environmental justice, they need to be heard. And so I’m just grateful that you joined us today.

Georgie:
Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. And this has been awesome, talking to you guys and meeting you two as well. And I would love to stay connected in the future. So please keep me updated on anything, any of your projects, and let me know how I can show up and support.

Kimala:
Definitely. And same to you. I want to hear about what’s cooking and baking, and what happens with that stuff. So please keep us posted.

Georgie:
I will for sure. Definitely.